Curse

DRyther · Aug 02, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

OK - So, I have been enjoying PvE for the last year-or-so and decide, Hey lets try a little Person v. Person action - Random Arena style!

Considered my PvE Nuker and Spiker an Ass-Kicker... Walked in to RA as a Spiker, got teamed up with (3) Random others, we WON our 1st Match

- Then, over the course of the next hour, LOST EVERY OTHER MATCH

. And, as if that weren't bad enough, I think I was the weakest link on all those Randomly generated teams. WTF.

So, (and don't hesitate to be brutally honest) am I just a bad Ele or is an Ele at a real disadvantage (in PvP) in general with weak armor and some slower-to-cast spells.

I know I have a lot to learn about PvP(!), but should I just consider my Ele a PvE character and create a new Character for PvP

?

Thanks to anyone who responds!

Lax Stick · Aug 02, 2006, 09:10 PM // 21:10

You aren't a bad ele and ele isn't a bad profession, you just aren't experienced in pvp. Do more and more pvp and you will get better and better. For example, did you learn any new tricks from doing an hour of RA?

Medionsaturn · Aug 02, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

To be honest I've found it hard to determine whether it's the circumstances, the Player, or the build that's the undoing.

I don't really think much of Nukers in PvP, especially in RA where there's so few enemies that they just move out of the way easily.

So one thing you may have to do is stick it out untill you get a Two Monk team capable of a Gladiator Point and see how you do there.

Of course I'm no expert, that's just my thoughts and how I'd do it.

Commander Ryker · Aug 02, 2006, 09:24 PM // 21:24

There are ele builds that work very well in pvp. Check here and other sites for pvp builds. They are out there.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 02, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Moving this to the general forums.

Eles are great in PvP. Give this build a shot...

Elementalist/Monk
Air Magic: 16 (12 + 1 + 3)
Energy Storage 10 (9 + 1)
Healing Prayers 10 (9 + 1)

-Blinding Flash
-Enervating Charge
-Lightning Orb
-Gale
-Draw Conditions
-Healing Breeze
-Ether Prodigy {E}
-Res Sig

Basically, you want to use Blinding Flash on enemy warriors and rangers to make them miss just about every attack. Cover your Blindness with the Weakness from Enervating Charge and warriors or ranger attacks will be made useless. Healing Breeze will keep you alive and Draw Conditions allows you to pull Blinds or other conditions off of your party. Gale should be used sparingly since it causes Exhaustion, but a well-timed Gale on a low monk or other crucial target can earn your team a kill. Finally, use Ether Prodigy to boost your energy whenever it gets low. Be sure to bring a 20% enchanting staff.

An easier version of this build would use Elemental Attunement instead of Prodigy, and Air Attunement instead of Gale or Draw.

The biggest transition from PvE to PvP as an ele is going from damage to support. In PvE Eles can deal a lot of damage to tightly packed monsters, while in PvP it's warriors who deal the damage and eles are primarily support and defensive characters. They throw out blinds or heal parties or snares, but their damage isn't really important outside of a spike.

*lemming* · Aug 02, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

I posted in your duped thread in the ele forum too, but reading this thread helps:

Why Nuking Sucks

Basically, shifting out of the 'ele = damage' mindframe is key.

Narayanese · Aug 02, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRyther

So, (and don't hesitate to be brutally honest) am I just a bad Ele or is an Ele at a real disadvantage (in PvP) in general with weak armor and some slower-to-cast spells.

Weak armour and slow-casting spells hurt, as it means you'll take a hundred damage from a warrior casting that 2s spell, since you can't move while casting. Moving around is a good way of reducing damage from wariors and assassins to managable levels (other methods are blind, wWeakness, ward against melee, and slowing down the enemy so he can't reach you).

Try out the pre-made elementalist build (a flashbot/heal party-spammer)(start a PvP character or copy its skillbar on your existing char) until you've some more experience, that way you know your build isn't the problem. And avoid nuking.

The masters in the isle of the nameless are good for training on, you'll see which types of builds you are strong against and which you are weak against.

tomcruisejr · Aug 02, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

ele without self defense/heals in RA will get slaughtered.

Commander Ryker · Aug 02, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Moving this to the general forums.

Eles are great in PvP. Give this build a shot...

Elementalist/Monk
Air Magic: 16 (12 + 1 + 3)
Energy Storage 10 (9 + 1)
Healing Prayers 10 (9 + 1)

-Blinding Flash
-Enervating Charge
-Lightning Orb
-Gale
-Draw Conditions
-Healing Breeze
-Ether Prodigy {E}
-Res Sig

Basically, you want to use Blinding Flash on enemy warriors and rangers to make them miss just about every attack. Cover your Blindness with the Weakness from Enervating Charge and warriors or ranger attacks will be made useless. Healing Breeze will keep you alive and Draw Conditions allows you to pull Blinds or other conditions off of your party. Gale should be used sparingly since it causes Exhaustion, but a well-timed Gale on a low monk or other crucial target can earn your team a kill. Finally, use Ether Prodigy to boost your energy whenever it gets low. Be sure to bring a 20% enchanting staff.

An easier version of this build would use Elemental Attunement instead of Prodigy, and Air Attunement instead of Gale or Draw.

The biggest transition from PvE to PvP as an ele is going from damage to support. In PvE Eles can deal a lot of damage to tightly packed monsters, while in PvP it's warriors who deal the damage and eles are primarily support and defensive characters. They throw out blinds or heal parties or snares, but their damage isn't really important outside of a spike.

Wouldn't Glyph of Energy be better then Ether prodigy? Glyph would help against exhaustion and keep energy up at the same time. I use it all the time for the high cost/high exhaustion spells and it is awsome.

Wasteland Squidget · Aug 02, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

On that build, Glyph will 'give' you 10 energy every 16 seconds, at best. Ether Prodigy can give you 52.8 in that same time, at the cost of your Exhaustion pip. When you're on a build that wants to spam 15e skills (Blinding Flash) you need an energy engine like Ether Prodigy or Elemental Attunement to function.

The Real Roy Keane · Aug 03, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Were you running a fire ele? Those are easily the softest targets in RA.

Commander Ryker · Aug 03, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

On that build, Glyph will 'give' you 10 energy every 16 seconds, at best. Ether Prodigy can give you 52.8 in that same time, at the cost of your Exhaustion pip. When you're on a build that wants to spam 15e skills (Blinding Flash) you need an energy engine like Ether Prodigy or Elemental Attunement to function.

I see your point but that brings up another question. How can ether prodigy be effective when you've got total exhaustion? It takes longer to bring energy back up, so wouldn't it be the same using ether prodigy?

wren e · Aug 03, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

If you are at total exhaustion in a RA match, you need to relook at how you are using your skills to better manage their usefulness and your energy. I play ele all the time, specifically in GvG which battles last much longer than RA and I have never run into total exhaustion once.

JR · Aug 04, 2006, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

I see your point but that brings up another question. How can ether prodigy be effective when you've got total exhaustion? It takes longer to bring energy back up, so wouldn't it be the same using ether prodigy?

Learn to manage your energy so you don't get fully exhausted. Unless you are spamming Gale it really isn't hard... and you shouldn't be spamming Gale.

kvndoom · Aug 04, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

Were you running a fire ele? Those are easily the softest targets in RA.

An Elementalist's cast time are its biggest hindrance in PVP. Long cast time spells are sure to get interrupted. Whatever you do, don't bring Meteor Shower. Unless you're in TA with a team that has a good snare, and you use Glyph of Sacrifice, or you're trying to kill Ritualist spirits, don't bring Meteor Shower. I love standing still for 5 seconds while someone casts this, and then simply walking out of the AoE completely unharmed.

Seriously though, being a nuker generally doesn't work well in PVP. As Air, you have guaranteed KD (Gale) and can spam blindness, and assist in spiking with Orb. As Earth, you have lots of defensive capabilities and decent damage. As Water you can put some nasty snares on soft targets for your warriors or assassins to wipe them out quickly. But Fire is strictly for damage, and that really isn't the best role for PVP because of the drawbacks.

H3inrich · Aug 04, 2006, 02:08 PM // 14:08

In the time passed in RA I've manaed to have more than one good laugh making one or more War or Sin chasing me and then using Glyph of Sacrifice+Meteor shower, immediately followed by Grasping Earth and whatever nasty PBAoE you can bring on (Inferno, Flame Burst, Phoenix or even a simple fireball) to finish the cooking...
Not a serious build tho, just good for something different that can be surprising

lagrand1 · Aug 04, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

The main thing to learn, more important than picking your build, is how to kite. There is an article on kiting and damage mitigation, read it. The second most important is picking your targets, and times to attack. An ele is a support in pvp, don't try to take down the other team. Protect the monk if there is one, blind everyone all the time. And keep moving.

Kruzing Low · Aug 05, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

yeh basically what he said ^^^^
air eles are fun like crazy in ra
9 out of 10 times the other team will have at least 2 melee classes, so you just keep blind up
since gale causes exhaustion its best to use it on players casting long critical skills like res sig/heal sig/troll ungent
lightning orb and lightning strike are best to use after someone has been galed (if thats a word) or a weakened player (like a monk with less than 50% hp) for the finishing blow
i always dual attune when i go air ele, never had low energy problems that way
heal breeze isnt just for yourself either, most of the times youll have more then half your energy so might as well spread it around to players who are under attack to save your monk some energy

Phoenix Arrows · Aug 08, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Unless you are running as a Star Burst Ele in Heroes' Ascent, I would advise against Nuking. In RA there are too little people to actually have the Nuking have much of a use. It is the same in TA as well.

The problem with Air and/or Ele Attunement is that once you die, you have to wait for the skill to recharge before you can use it again. The recharge got lowered down to 45 seconds but that's still longer than the 5 seconds for Ether Prodigy. EP takes up 1 slot as well.

Poison Ivy · Aug 08, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Elementalist/Monk
Air Magic: 16 (12 + 1 + 3)
Energy Storage 10 (9 + 1)
Healing Prayers 10 (9 + 1)

Oh gawd!!1!!11!!one1!

And you call yourself an Moddie! How do hell are you suppose to put Monk runes on Elementalist armor!